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Semi-Pro Rankings 2009

On December 1, 2008 A. McCormick Designs will remove the Rankings link from the GMFL website and launch the SemiPro BCS Rankings website. 2008 was the first year we used a modified BCS ranking system to rank teams in various leagues (including the GMFL); we had a lot of success and very few complaints from the teams that participated in the rankings in 2008.

During that time we have had a lot of teams through out the country ask if they can be included in the system for 2009 regardless of A-classification (a, aa, 1aa, aaa). With the launching of the SemiPro BCS Rankings website ALL TEAMS AND LEAGUES ARE WELCOME TO REGISTER! There will be a one time membership fee of $5.00 which can be paid online after December 1, 2008.

The link to the SemiPro BCS Rankings Website will be:

http://www.semiprobcs.com

Re: Semi-Pro Rankings 2009

What made the ratings successful were the completeness of the leagues reports and scores that were submitted. The Adams Co Patriots were treated the same as the Miami Co Vikings.

Now that you are charging for teams to be represented, are these going to be as complete as they were last year? Are all teams going to be factored into the rankings even if they don't pay.

Are you going to still depend on having others submit you the scores?

Re: Semi-Pro Rankings 2009

I will forward you reponse to Mr. McCormick...

I'm just the Messenger

Re: Semi-Pro Rankings 2009

Gamb,

I think the ranking of teams is a good idea, however we sent our game results at least a half dozen times last year and we were never included in the poll. In fact we played (and beat) a few teams that are currently ranked. Our team was snubbed by this poll and leads me to question how things will be run in the future. McCormick allowed personal issues interfere with the objectivity that is needed for the integrity of any polls or rankings.

JI

Re: Semi-Pro Rankings 2009

You know me Hully...

I just love the game....and look to help spread the word...
Mainly because A-AA Teams get no love...

Re: Semi-Pro Rankings 2009

It's all good. Good luck with the rankings.

JI

Re: Semi-Pro Rankings 2009

In May 2008 a letter was sent out to various "LEAGUES" informing them of a potential new ranking system that was going to be on the GMFL website. Since it was a test run only 1AA LEAGUES and the teams in those 1AA LEAGUES would be added as long as they met the requirement of:

1. Must have permmission from the LEAGUE to include any member in that LEAGUE
2. All LEAGUES must be considered 1AA
3. Somebody from each LEAGUE must submit the scores by no later then Monday 10am.
4. Absoluely no INDEPENDENT teams would be included.

What you failed to mention is that you, your organization, nor your league signed up for the rankings therefore you weren't included.

As far as my INTEGRITY and ABILITY to run an fair and unbiased ranking system...Mr. Irving let me put your integrity question to rest, over 118 teams participated, only 1 complaint from a team that wasn't included because they couldn't follow directions. AGAIN.....NUFF SAID!

I will not get into a pissing match on the message board regarding one, two or even a few opinions, what I will do instead is say:

The SemiPro BCS Ranking website has moved to it's own server and domain, (http://www.semiprobcs.com) and will be launched on December 1, 2008 and will be open to ALL teams no matter what league affiliation, classification or history.

The teams that want to participate will do so and the ones that don't....won't. See it's just that easy!

Anthony McCormick

Re: Semi-Pro Rankings 2009

Why no independents?

Re: Semi-Pro Rankings 2009

Reply to Why No Independents;

As with anything you have to have a starting point. I needed to get my feet wet using the system and felt that the easiest way to do so is to focus on "LEAGUES" and not individual (independent) teams.

Now that I have a full year under my belt, and more people assisting me with maintaining the website and assisting with obtaining scores, we can better serve everyone.

I know I won't please everyone but at least an effort is being made to include everyone in something that is going to help more then hurt.

There is a little information posted on the site right now www.semiprobcs.com under the about link.
Again MORE INFORMATION will be posted as I work towards completing the site by the deadline date.

If you have questions you can email them to me directly or you can choose to pick up the phone and call 618-223-0446 either way works for me.

Often you can have your questions/concerns answered quicker by asking me directly vs posting them on Message Boards. More often then not, I won't know what's been posted until somebody sends me a link and say's look at what somebody wrote.

Re: Semi-Pro Rankings 2009

I was just curious...because an independent team could play and beat all the best teams, but you wouldn't be willing to rank them. So your calculation must have some sort of scoring of different leagues, how do you rank them? Give weight to the schedule not the league.

Re: Semi-Pro Rankings 2009

You are 100% correct and in 2009 everybody that signs up will be fairly ranked based on the posted criteria.

Thanks for communicating your questions and concerns!

Re: Semi-Pro Rankings 2009

AFL President wrote in response to my asking if he ever got an email the GMFL president about rankings:

The only thing I received from Mr. McCormick was a forwarded email about a tournament. Below is the email.

Greg Campbell

Email Message Received:

Mr. Thompson; My name is Anthony McCormick, Owner and President of the Great Midwest Football League we had spoken earlier in the year. I would like to invite teams in your league to participate in the Great Midwest Challenge Regional Tournament which kickoff's on Saturday October 25, 2008 and runs through November 15, 2008. The Great Midwest Gridiron Challenge is a 16 team tournament that will be used to determine the best semi-pro (minor league, adult amateur) team in the Midwest and surrounding regions. This tournament is set up like the BCS except everyone that participates will play for the Great Midwest Gridiron Regional Title instead of any two random teams being picked. In order to qualify for the challenge, teams must have at least 6 wins and be OVER .500, however if we cannot find 16 teams that meet this criteria, then we will take teams that have 6 wins and are AT .500. If this still cannot be done then we will take teams that have 5-wins and OVER .500 if we still can't find that scenario then will take a team that is 5-5. NOTE: We will not take any teams that are BELOW .500 or have forfeited any regular season games. NO EXCEPTIONS TO THIS RULE!
You can visit the link http://www.gmfleague.com/Tournament/index.htm for information regarding the criteria, cost, rules, how the money from the tournament is used, etc... NOTE: THERE IS NO HIDDEN AGENDA NOR AM I COMPETING WITH ANY OTHER "NATIONAL" OR "REGIONAL" TOURNAMENT COMMITTEE! I just want to bring together the best of the best to fight it out for the title of THE BEST!

If you have any questions regarding the tournament, you may contact me at (618) 223-0446. Thank you very much for your time and hope to see some of the teams in the AFL in the Tournament!
Sincerely,
Anthony McCormick
Owner/President
Great Midwest Football League

I really think that rankings are a good idea. But you have to have an honest person (or maybe more than one) or the integrity will be comprimised.

Just my opinion.

Re: Semi-Pro Rankings 2009

I'm not trying to start anything, but the real BCS system is totally f'd up, how will your system be better and a more realistic ranking system than the others that are out there at the MInor League level?

Let me get this right, if a team doesn't pay the $5 to join your BCS, then they don't get ranked, and that means they don't deserve to be on the list how? Why should any team have to pay money to see where someone else, who knows little to nothing about them, thinks they should be compared to other teams? If you don't have a representative at every game, all year long, you don't know who can do what or where they stand. You can't count on the coaches to give a true assessment of their team, or any other in most cases. So what information or criteria will you use to determine the rankings?

I for one would like to see a unified ranking system that is all-inclusive, and independent of any league or team affiliation. But to pull something like that off would be a monumental undertaking to say the least. It's great to be ranked, but the rankings have never been realistic for more resons than anyone could list here. I have never heard ANYONE who could break down the criteria for being classified as "A" "AA" "1-AA" or "AAA".
I can tell you that many times there is way to much emphasis being put on rankings that are subjective at best.

Mr. McCormick, I do wish you luck with your endeavor. I hope that the time you have invested over these past months serves you well and you are ready for what you are getting yourself in to.

Re: Semi-Pro Rankings 2009

Hully, Speaking of compromising one's integrity........ Why were you expelled from the GMFL again?

Re: Semi-Pro Rankings 2009

WOLF: I'm not trying to start anything, but the real BCS system is totally f'd up, how will your system be better and a more realistic ranking system than the others that are out there at the MInor League level?

Dr. Evil: You are right in the aspect that the way the College BCS is used, it's jacked up (I think Florida should be #2 but hey what do I know?) What makes this better, for this level of football having a criteria that will rank using only numbers which "WON'T LIE" is better then taking an educated guess. Strength of Schedule, Points Scored vs Points Allowed and Margin of Victory along with your won-loss record will all play a role.

Wolf: Let me get this right, if a team doesn't pay the $5 to join your BCS, then they don't get ranked, and that means they don't deserve to be on the list how? Why should any team have to pay money to see where someone else, who knows little to nothing about them, thinks they should be compared to other teams?

Dr. Evil: So let "ME" get this staight, as long as the rankings are done on my dime and time then they are vaild?

I can understand if I said $10, $20, $50, or $100 for an annual membership, I said a "ONE TIME" $5.00 fee to assist with the maintenance of the site. Hosting is not free and neither is the work that has been and will be put in to run the site.

"YES", if you want to be a part of the system then it's a fee of $5.00. Sorry but it is what it is...

Wolf: If you don't have a representative at every game, all year long, you don't know who can do what or where they stand. You can't count on the coaches to give a true assessment of their team, or any other in most cases.

Dr. Evil: Members of other minor league football ranking websites don't go to every game, they use their system to rank teams accordingly and often you don't know HOW you got your rankings...which brings me to my next reply....

Wolf: So what information or criteria will you use to determine the rankings?

Dr. Evil: Some of the criteria is posted already under the about link of the website.

Wolf: I for one would like to see a unified ranking system that is all-inclusive, and independent of any league or team affiliation.

Dr. Evil: Again for the upcoming 2009 season, any and all teams that register regardless of league affiliation or status is welcome to register.

Wolf: But to pull something like that off would be a monumental undertaking to say the least. It's great to be ranked, but the rankings have never been realistic for more resons than anyone could list here.

Dr. Evil: Can't debate you on that, but I will say that we had ranked over 100 teams this past season, we had every criteria breakdown and were able to answer all questions that were posted as well as emailed so again if 100 teams join then that 100 teams that we will rank. And while I understand your desire to have an all inculusive ranking system, I believe that you should have the permission of the teams involved...Like you said not everyone believes in rankings so not everyone will join and that's ok, it doesn't make it any better or any worse.

Wolf: I have never heard ANYONE who could break down the criteria for being classified as "A" "AA" "1-AA" or "AAA".

Dr. Evil: Neither have I, and I have asked over and over again. The way I figured is if you weren't in the NAFL, Labelle, RFL or MCFL then you weren't considered AAA. Now how true this is, I don't know?

Wolf: I can tell you that many times there is way to much emphasis being put on rankings that are subjective at best.

Dr. Evil: Again I agree...

Wolf: Mr. McCormick, I do wish you luck with your endeavor. I hope that the time you have invested over these past months serves you well and you are ready for what you are getting yourself in to.

Dr. Evil: Thank you Mr. Wolf, I hope that I am ready as well.

As far as Mr. Irving:

You can question my integrity as much as you like but that's like the pot calling the kettle black.

I'm not going to get into any debates with you and your opinion, instead I will continue to support your efforts as well as wish you the very best in your endevors.

Once again, you have the option to register or not either way I won't lose an ounce of rest over your decision.

The Doc-ta!

Re: Semi-Pro Rankings 2009

Mr. Irving is 100% correct, there was NEVER a letter sent to the Alliance Football League, nor did I ever say I sent a letter to the alliance football league,

What I did say was that as part of the criteria ALL TEAMS INVOLVED MUST HAVE LEAGUE PERMISSION.... This was done out of "RESPECT" for the leagues. Didn't want to add any teams from leagues that didn't want to participate.

And for reference you can ask Gambrel and Steve of the Chicago Thunder who received the email in question when we talked about the Thunder being involved.

Thank you...Thank you very much....

Next ---->

Re: Semi-Pro Rankings 2009

Blah Blah Blah.

Re: Semi-Pro Rankings 2009

Thank you for takng the time to answer the questions and concerns that were posed. Having had time to read and ponder, I have some more, if you don't mind.

What is the ultimate end result of you ranking all the involved teams? I understand you held a tournament this season, is the plan to continue that going forward? Having asked that, let me go this route,
Let's just say a team wins its league, or even doesn't, but has defeated teams that are ranked relatively high in your poll. That team hasn't paid to be included in your system. Would that team be invited to participate in your post season tournament(provided that is the goal)?
Reading your ranking criteria, If a team plays only league games, but is the only team from that league in your BCS, what happens then?
It also seems that MOV being as high a factor as it is, will increase teams trying to run up scores against their opponents. That seems to contradict the idea that teams at this level just want to play football and be able to have fun doing so.
Do you plan to set your own criteria to determine what level a team plays at?(A,AA,1AA,AAA).

Again, I'm not trying to start anything or even argue aboutthis, but there are definitely questions that I, and i'm sure others, would like to have answered (for the record, we will probably join).
I realize that your time is valuable and worth much more than the mere $5 price tag you have put on this, but there are other organizations out there that are doing this and not charging anything for it. I know that we get what we pay for, but besides seeing our team ranked on a website, what is the payoff for us?
Thanks for your time and patience in answering.

Re: Semi-Pro Rankings 2009

What are the other ranking website out there?

Re: Semi-Pro Rankings 2009

No notice was given to the LMFL and we have teams ranked. somebodys fibbing

Re: Semi-Pro Rankings 2009

Before I answer Wolf's questions let me start from the bottom up...

Falcon 1 aka Joel Prunda:
Yes there was notice to the LMFL so I won't even begin to debate this arguement with you.

MC_Pirates:
The other known ranking websites are the MLFN and MLFE. There is another one but I think it only ranks the teams in the state of Wisconsin. I can't remember the link but I am sure somebody can post it.

Wolf: Thank you for takng the time to answer the questions and concerns that were posed. Having had time to read and ponder, I have some more, if you don't mind.

Dr. Evil: I will do my best and if I don't have the answer I will find the answer.

Wolf: What is the ultimate end result of you ranking all the involved teams?

Dr. Evil: The ultimate goal is to work with other organizations such as the North American Football League, Minor League Football News, National Football Events and any independent organization that sponsors bowl games. You stated earlier and I have agreed that nobody has ever been able to explain how tems are classified (a,aa,aaa) yet every year people are playing in bowl games not knowing it's true value. Everybody say's there isn't a "true" #1 in semi-pro but there can be if we truly set up a system that is fair and impartial to everyone. I will touch more on this statement as I continue to answer your questions/concerns.

Wolf: I understand you held a tournament this season, is the plan to continue that going forward?

Dr. Evil: I didn't hold a tournament this season because of last minute planning. What actually happened was I was asked to organize a tournament but becuase it was very late in the year (when I received that request) most of the teams had made commitments to play in other tournaments. Now I have be asked and to join the NAFE committee as well as been offered by several people to join forces to make sure that the tournament that we were going to hold in 08 gets going in 09. Again more on this later in my answers....

Wolf: Having asked that, let me go this route,
Let's just say a team wins its league, or even doesn't, but has defeated teams that are ranked relatively high in your poll. That team hasn't paid to be included in your system. Would that team be invited to participate in your post season tournament(provided that is the goal)?

Dr. Evil: I guess I can best explain it this way, would you let a team outside of your league play for your league championship without being a member?
I can also say; we don't live in a perfect world so I do expect there to be some bumps in the road and as we reach those bumps, we will fix whatever problems there are as quickly and as humanly possible.

Wolf: Reading your ranking criteria, If a team plays only league games, but is the only team from that league in your BCS, what happens then?

Dr. Evil: This is a question that I will have to come back to you on. I have an answer, however there are other people who also help with this that I would like to advise with before I post... I will have an answer for you shortly.

Wolf: It also seems that MOV being as high a factor as it is, will increase teams trying to run up scores against their opponents. That seems to contradict the idea that teams at this level just want to play football and be able to have fun doing so.

Dr. Evil: You know I thought that very same thing last season but that wasn't the case. Here are some leagues that participated in the 2008 rankings, I have taken the team with the highest MoV average and their ranking.

League-Team-Rank-MoV

Great Lakes Football League
Northwest Ohio Knights Rnk #22 | MoV 18.3

Great Midwest Football League
Northeast Missouri Cyclones Rnk #4 | MoV 39.0

Interstate Football League
Southwest Ohio Blazers Rnk #14 | MoV 20.8

Ironman Football League
Madison Mustangs Rnk #1 | MoV 45.8

Midstates Football League
Chicago Thunder Rnk #3 | MoV 36.0

Midwest Football League
Adams County Patriots #11 | MoV 26.2

Mid-Ohio Football League
Mid-Ohio Jets #2 | MoV 43.5

USFA
Lima Warriors #5 | MoV 29.2

Most if not all have played within their leagues or leagues affiliated with the Ranking System and all with the exception of one league played between 12-14 games including playoffs and league championships.

The MoV is not a please run up the score system, its a bench mark to say that a 35-0 win is the same as a 60-0 win. You just want to maintain your average which we set at +35. I can address why we didn't add independents last season, it was fear of scheduling weak competition to have a high ranking, but now we have something in place to combat that which is the Strength of Schedule and Opponents Opponents Strength of Schedule.....Unfortunately you will have to call me directly for me to explain this because I will be sitting here for days trying to give scenario after scenario.

Wolf: Do you plan to set your own criteria to determine what level a team plays at?(A,AA,1AA,AAA).

Dr. Evil: No, Teams will tell me which level they have an interest in when they register. Instead of classifying a team as a lower tier, you will determine which type of system you wish to play in example: National Tournament (All Regions Included) which means that team has the means and desire to travel across america, East Coast Regional Tournament meaning only want to play on the East Coast, West Coast meaing only want to play on the West Coast...Midwest meaning only playing in the Midwest...etc,.. Then there are some teams that just want to play in local tournament....or even establish their own "bowl game"...either way it's a good resource.

Wolf: Again, I'm not trying to start anything or even argue aboutthis, but there are definitely questions that I, and i'm sure others, would like to have answered (for the record, we will probably join).

Dr. Evil: That cool just wish you would have contacted me via email or phone that way it wouldn't be preceived by others as "starting a debate", but it's cool, as you can see I have no problem answering your questions.

Wolf: I realize that your time is valuable and worth much more than the mere $5 price tag you have put on this, but there are other organizations out there that are doing this and not charging anything for it. I know that we get what we pay for, but besides seeing our team ranked on a website, what is the payoff for us?

Dr. Evil: When I mentioned to someone (won't say who because I have not asked permission to reveal his name on the MB) aboout changing this from my leagues website to a public domain, we talked aboout the cost of hosting, design, and maintenance. Hell I did it for free all last year and that was just for a little over 100 teams, now we are talking about 3, 4, or 10 times that amount...not to mention I am creating a directory that will be current with all of the teams information, including contact and website (marketing for everyone) you will have all of the ranking information including Strength of Schedule, Points per Game Average, League Standings, Independent Standings, Information in advance about Tournaments, Tournament Dates, Who sponsors the Tournamet and which teams by ranking (and interest) will qualify.
(again when you register you would have given me the 411 on what type of system you wish to participate in if any...

Like I said before, I am not going to make everybody happy, I'm definately not trying to, but for those few who participated last season enjoyed what was done.

Wolf: Thanks for your time and patience in answering.

Dr. Evil: No Problem have a Happy Thanksgiving!


The Doc-ta!

Re: Semi-Pro Rankings 2009

Dr Evil....he is Ok....
but nobody will take the place of Dr Lou

$5...yeah some sites do it for free...but do they recognize some of the A and AA teams that feel they earn the right to be ranked.

Ok...how about the Cutters...seems like they have a great organization and moving in the right direction. But since they are new and the Sites like MLFNs and NFE dont really notice that much about them...do they get the love they deserve...to be honest, if I didnt come to Supas forum, I wouldnt know about them.

Ranking....dont mean nothing but pride...but for a New team or a Team that wants to get their name out it helps to have a Ranking...
So 5$ to help get a teams name out....Priceless

I will stop now..because its 3pm on Friday and I have had 2 too many Vodkas

Re: Semi-Pro Rankings 2009

In the past I have made statement in hast and out of anger.

I believe the SemiPro BCS Rankings will make every attempt to be a fair an accurate account of the standing based on information submitted.

I truly believe that all the Semi Pro teams in the need to have a healthy relationship with one another, and in order to do that sometimes you have to admit when you are wrong.

So I retract my statement questioning the integrity of the SemiPro BCS Rankings and admit it was in bad taste to air that opinion publicaly.

It was brought to my attention recently that my comments were looked upon as hurtful, mean-spirited and slanderous. That was not my intention at all. So, again ask that everyone reading this post disregard my prior ill-advised comments.

At this time I would like to show my faith in the impartiality of the SemiPro BCS Rankings, and use this same forum to ask permission to be allowed into the ranking system for the 2009 season.

Thank you,
J. Irving
Head Coach
Stallions of Country Club Hills

Re: Semi-Pro Rankings 2009

Oh and I do believe that the $5 fee has been removed.
I think U just need to submitt your team name and then give the game results each week to be included