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Before this REALLY begins to get out of control...

Since I begin composing my post, one post has been removed and others have been added.

Mathew 7: 4 (NASB 2005)
"Or how can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' and behold, the log is in your own eye?

John 8: 7 (NASB 2005)
But when they persisted in asking Him, He straightened up, and said to them, "He who is without sin among you, let him be the first to throw a stone at her."

"We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark. The real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light."
~ Plato

"In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act."
~ George Orwell

I actually read this ‘headline’ approximately 2 hours ago. Since that time I have been attempting to determine what my reaction to this should be. I think that ‘saddened’ is probably the best word I can use to describe my reaction. I am long past being stunned or surprised by anything that I read on this forum.

For the record, I was not in attendance at this game and therefore; I have no first hand knowledge of the events that obviously unfolded. In some respects, I am feeling a bit like the Al Pacino - Michael Corleone character in ‘The Godfather Part III’. Though I am not currently affiliated with any team, it seems I see my name mentioned just as much as if I were. Since my name was evoked, it is an opportune time to make at least one comment.

Regardless of what becomes the final ‘official’ version of last nights events, I think it is safe to say at this point that ‘an altercation’ did in fact take place. This represents yet another reason that I did not wish to return to the sidelines this year. In a nutshell, one person can not walk onto a football field and prevent these types of things from occurring simply by virtue of his mere presence (and this includes game officials as well). The ability to influence, maintain control, and ultimately accept responsibility for a teams’ behavior is born over time in pre-season activities. If any of this process is ‘short-circuited’ the coach will not begin to be able to control the situation whether he is charged with that responsibility or not! The players of today simply DO NOT BLINDLY SUBMIT TO AUTHORITY in this manner but I digress.

As far as I can tell, all of the participants in this debacle are humans. As such, they are prone to mistakes. THIS INCLUDES GAME OFFICIALS! The league ‘Powers that be’ NEED to be made aware of any inflammatory behavior by any individual in any league sanctioned event. However… putting the ‘N-word’ on blast does nothing to further the final solution! It is quite possible that by doing so you may have driven any potential advocates or witnesses straight underground. If that is the case, how did this action further the potential dialogue necessary for a resolution?

In reading yet another post concerning issues with officials; this is yet another case where just about every soul involved in these various leagues has to take some ownership! Back during the off-season debate about merging leagues etc. I mentioned that another factor that people [players] need to really consider is the impact that this constant expansion has on the officiating question. In short, more games will require more officials. Additionally, the larger the geographic area that a given league encompasses; the more difficult officiating logistics become. This includes the ability of officials to meet, gain familiarity with rules, put together officiating teams etc. Ultimately, this is not just a football dilemma. Just ask any local little league, basketball league etc about their officiating logistics. I am quite certain that they will tell you that it is becoming more difficult all the time to obtain folks willing to take on the job. As I mention these issues, I by know means intend to indicate that a bad official or officials SHOULD NOT be called out.

I have NO QUESTION that the “PTB” (Powers that be) in the various leagues will tell you that dealing and negotiating with officials IS NOT EASY! I am certain at this point there are those of you that will want to point out that THEY (the officials) are getting paid and that therefore “they must do thy bidding”. As I sit here and chuckle at that thought, I would suggest that this is true ignorance. When it comes down to it, the given officiating crew talent pool is “THE ONLY GAME IN TOWN”. For these officials, officiating what some of you insist upon calling ‘semi-pro’ football DOES NOT REALLY FURTHER their agenda one iota. Yes, there may be a couple of ‘cash-strapped’ dudes that ‘need’ the games but for the most part; these guys became officials first and foremost to do high school games. What I am saying here is that you can’t just “bust up in” a meeting for officials and begin making demands. There are ‘civilized’ methods to do this.

Finally, players NEED TO ACCEPT that participating in this type of football environment comes with a personal responsibility. I sometimes get the impression that there are those that think playing in this arena is a license to walk on the field and act like a freaking heathen while someone else (coaches, team leaders, team captains) is charged with keeping your ‘diploma-less john brown hind parts’ in line!

Re: Before this REALLY begins to get out of control...

I have stayed away form this site on purpose until recently to check scores and such.....but seeing you drop knowledge on here always invokes words from me

First and foremost you are always Coach Hill to me because you have earned and deserve that....and as much as I would have liked to play longer than I did (this is really just a general observation and does not point to any one event)the more circus events and the more I see with "todays" breed of player the more honored I feel to have played my last season with you

Now of course it's certainly a struggle with officials also.....and as you pointed out although I myself wouldn't disagree with expansion but the obvious flip side is then needing more officials....and as with everything in life it all comes down to percentages.....the more you add the higher percentage of bad that comes with it

Now for myself part of the "good ol days" also includes my opinion of the consistency of the refs
Those of us from the old(er) days remember Andy Ward
and can also remember the people who basically decided to not use his services and wanted to do their own thing and find their own officials....and to me it all went down from we know where all those people are who didn't want his services.....not around anymore but everyone playing now is left in the wake of their decisions
I could bring up some of the conversations I had with some of them as a coach but it doesn't matter
but again although i believe back in my day the officials were a lot more consistent but the sheer number of officials needed was a lot less then so that all has to weigh out

Now to me the main point of your post may go without understanding by a certain mass of people
Those capable will certainly get your point but a certain group will never understand what you said

I will attempt to turn you message into a short
and feel free and correct or elaborate more if you deem it necessary


There is plenty more discussion to be had but I will just say that I love when you do drop in and spread some knowledge because your words come from plenty of experience "AT THIS LEVEL"
and most don't understand that there is a difference
it is unlike anything else because it involves grown men with nothing at stake (scholarship-contract)
although I think everyone who has not gone back and spent time helping out and coaching at the high school or lower level would benefit from it
seeing that pure true love for this sport again cant be described but only experienced

Again....always good to see any of the "Hill's" drop an opinion or word of wisdom.....

-Curtis Bell

Re: Before this REALLY begins to get out of control...

C.B. aka Big Dog 66

Man! What's up! It is always good to have a "CB siting". It is especially good to see that you are upright and kickin'.

I hope that life is treating you well. Did you hang up the clipboard or are you still hangin' in there?

I would like to think that it might help a little for some of us "seasoned" cats to drop in now and then and lay down a few "pearls" (I seem to be on an Al Pacino kick today ~ 'Scent of a Woman')

Overall though, I am just like you, I been here 'lurkin' and always check the scores and Supa's predictions.

You still have the same e-mail address? Mine is still the same hook-up.

Take care

Re: Before this REALLY begins to get out of control...

Curtis how ya been? Are you still around the area? Oh and are you still coaching anywhere or whats the deal??

Re: Before this REALLY begins to get out of control...

I am proud to follow two of the most respected voices around in this thread. All of us still have a lot to learn from Dane Hill- and those of you who took the time to read his post above don't need reminding of that. I doubt that I can improve much on the above analysis other than to say that one should make a clear distinction between the level of proficiency at which an official carries out his duties and how he handles himself in general. It occurs to me that I would much rather have an official who is NOT on top of every call- but who can handle himself and the inevitable noise from players and coaches with confidence and integrity. While an official's talent and general acumen will improve with experience, an official who is- pardon the strong language, but it is called for here- an asshole- is less likely to improve over time.

The issue for me with last night's event seems to have been that the official in question failed miserably with respect to the latter measure. I would hasten to add that a lot of folks very likely handled poorly questions that they had about his performance on the former measure.

Finally, it's worth echoing what Dane and Curtis said- the expansion of leagues and teams- especially in these economic circumstances (let's remember that officiating is never anyone's only job)- has had an impact on the quality of officiating. There's been enough football played this year to see that in some quarters it has had a big effect on the quality of the game on the field as well. In a very real sense, then, we all have some measure of blame for the underperformance of officials. As Troy mentioned in another thread, there are appropriate channels for dealing with these issues- and I would certainly take much more seriously accusations of officials using that kind of disgusting language or through neglect or malice performing poorly than I would demanding the release of a given official over an argument about his reticence to make a holding call.

We have every right to demand that officials are respectful and attentive (and that our players and coaches treat them with respect as well) regardless of our perception of their accuracy in making calls.

But time will certainly tell.

Re: Before this REALLY begins to get out of control...

Coach Hill its always a pleasure to hear great knowledge from a "Guru" such as yourself. Its always inspiring to know that they are great coaches such as yourself are out there ready to take the player with even the smallest bit of talent to the next level. Just wanted to express my loyalty for you and your coaching ability. No matter where u coach (if u ever decide to again) I'm already on the roster.

Re: Before this REALLY begins to get out of control...

Big Lou. Thanks for the props.

Just for you I am using the icons with the shades

Re: Before this REALLY begins to get out of control...

Hey Mr Coach Hill,

This is an old competitor of yours from the South Bend Stampede who played Free Safety. It is good to see you are still around and dropping knowledge as you always have. I assume you retired from coaching all together but the football world needs more men/mentors like yourself to help us younger folks improve this level of play as well as all levels of football. Much respect SIR and as we say in Hip Hop "Keep spittin that knowledge"!!!

Former Stampede #4
Current Hitmen #26

Re: Before this REALLY begins to get out of control...

I would like to say that since I have been playin semi-pro football, I have been hearing about this Dane Hill dude! After reading your words coach Hill, I can see why you are held so high by your peers in this game! Wow that was some wisdom, and very effective in the approach! I would also like to send a shout out to Coach Bell as i know him.
I have played every level of football except pro. on every level there are refs! on every level the refs have the ability to impact the game! in terms of a play that the ref gets in the way, we all understand that they are a part of the game. in regards to calls, they are going to be the same, a part of the game! we all need to understand that they are humans, and that they aren't perfect nor will they reach that level! refs will always control the tone of a game period. we as players, coaches, and teams have to adapt to them and play and coach hard regardless. there are avenues to report the bad ones, and we teams need to use those channels! At the end of the day we are all men, and we should all conduct areselves in that manner. there is never a need to be negetive to these refs. this year we the Hurricanes have come across some bad, bad calls. whats so funny about it, is that in those games, the other team was complaining right with us! this just means to me that the game was still even, and that the players still decided the out come! Other things we need to keep in mind is that these dudes come from high school! High school players are kids, semi-pro players are men (or atleast supposed to be! LOL!). the speed of the two games are different, the talent levels are diferent.
so basically what i am saying is use the right steps to voice your concerns with the refs, and after that let it ride, keep your respect for the game (the refs are a part of the game), and keep playing hard!

PEOPLE NEED TO STOP MAKING EXCUSSES, AND HAVE REAL ANLYSIS OF THE REAL REASON WHY THE TEAM FEEL SHORT IN ANY OF THE GAMES THAT YOU FALL SHORT! if we did this we would all find many things that cost us the game, and the refs will end up at the bottom of the list!

I challenge every semi-pro player and coach to be more accountable the rest of the year and the rest of your career!

Re: Before this REALLY begins to get out of control...

@ T. Walker
Dude, what’s up man. Thanks for the props. It has been a minute but I certainly remember you. I did not know that you were still padding up but it’s good to see that you are. I have a lot of good memories from back then… even the defeats. I met a lot of good guys and I count you among them. I would like to think that I am on a football sabbatical. Really, the biggest reason is a work schedule that has me giggin’ second shift. I keep hopin’ though. Maybe if things work right I can get an opportunity to see you in action again in the future. In the meantime, keep yourself safe and healthy and good luck to you and your teammates.

@ Hurricane #5
Thank you also for the props. It is always nice to gain the acquaintance of another football warrior. Just as in the case of T. Walker, perhaps we’ll get a chance to meet at some point in the future. I have to say that you yourself have thrown… no wait… “spit some knowledge” out there. If I could, I would like to piggyback on a couple things you said.

I have to agree with your assessment of essentially “controlling what you can control” within a given game. As such, and I would challenge every player to do this, I STRONGLY believe that in any given game, your opponent will GIVE you at least three opportunities to ‘make a difference’ in the outcome of the contest. It is what you do with these opportunities that matters most. When it comes time to review the game, all players should think of those moments versus finding another individual to ‘pin the goat horns on’. The ‘goat’ in this case could be an official but it could also be a team mate.

Take care #5 and good luck with the remainder of your season.

Dane Hill

Re: Before this REALLY begins to get out of control...

Coach Hill,

As someone said above, to me you will ALWAYS be coach to me as Beef, Craig Zent, Troy Edwards, J.T., Wayne Wolf, Jim Nugent, Keith Hac, Tom Marsh, Billy West and all others I have countless respect for will be.

And I love that in the rare event that I happen to miss church, (cough, cough) I can come here, if you have posted, my words of wisdom will be fed to me just as well.

Nothing I can add to this that could create any more knowledge, so Ill go and rest my back.

Hey, youda been proud of me! I made two whole tackles on kickoff before I was sidelined this week!


Re: Before this REALLY begins to get out of control...

What's up Hendricks. You're at that point where you need to savor each tackle like a dog with good bone! You still workin' with 'Big Don' #55