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No More Saints!!!!!

Thanks to David & Crystal Murray, the Indianapolis Saints are on the verge of folding. These two should not be allowed to EVER have a team in the state of Indiana, not to mention, on this entire planet! The athletes on that team invested money to play and all of the money that was invested was spent by the "so-called" owners. The GDFL should do a better job with screening its applicants because these two individuals are nothing more than crooks and definitely don't know anything about running a business. I feel sorry for the players and staff that invested money and trusted these two. Let this be a lesson learned and I hope that everyone learns not to do business with the Murray's ever again. First, the Yellow Jackets and now the Saints. Didn't anyone learn the first time around? This is a crying shame and so are the Murray's!

Re: No More Saints!!!!!

If this is true; don't fault the Murrays, fault yourselves as players or otherwise. Start doing research on the ORGANIZATION. Start looking at the track record of owners and how long they have been in the business. Stop being petty and align yourselves with someone who has the PLAYERS best interest in mind. I have talked many years to this exact fact, yet, I still see people jumping on these fly by night teams only to be burned. It really is sad. As I make my plans to hang up my cleats I want to leave one thing behind more than any; the mental side of the game. It is cool to play with your homeboi's and all that but sometimes you have to make the unpopular decision of forwarding your career, that is if you see this semi-pro thing as a career thing. Make moves in it like you are trying to be a champion. I will not roll with any team capable of taking a 55-0, 40-6 ass whoopin. That is just stupid. Do your homework for yourself.

MP48

Re: No More Saints!!!!!

You can't fault the players for this failure because the "owners" were the ones that stole this money and put the team in this situation. Empty promises and lies....that's the owner's fault. The players are the ones who bought into this nonsense by believing their every word. It is sad but you can't control people's actions. And, oh yea....it is true. Congrats to you MP48 on your awesome career! Help the rest of us encourage others to do their research regarding these organizations.

Re: No More Saints!!!!!

Reminds me of seeing this thread on here...

http://pub18.bravenet.com/forum/static/show.php?usernum=1517792937&frmid=12&msgid=1703797&cmd=show

This stuff drives me nuts. You have these criminals and their money laundering scemes taking advantage of the same people they promise to help. "Oh we're a team that believes God is great, and get young men off the streets to make a positive impact on someone's life...instead I take his money, give some bull shit story on why it didn't work out AGAIN, and let him join another team." It's disgusting and gives the sport a bad name.

Like it was said, do your research, ask about teams on this board. Most of us know the deal and are glad to help out.

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Please believe me when I tell you I am sympathetic to this situation. I am lucky to have played for some good teams; however, that wasn't always the case. I did my share of dealing with mess. I just made a choice after seeing what a team on this level can accomplish. My Rules #1. What is this org. trying to accomplish. (are they ballin or do they have a community purpose) When I was younger it was JUST about ballin! #2. Is the org. trying to grow into something? #3. Presentation...how does this team look to the outside. When I was younger it was all about my swag. I have that, now its about leaving a legacy and REALLY helping younger cats find there way through this level. Not on my high horse...just seen a lot. There are those that a few call snakes, then there are those that are so SNAKE LIKE they talk with a HISS! Be careful who you affiliate with on this level. Lot's of great talent in the city being led astray by fakes. (So you think you wanna run a semi-pro team huh?) hint...best in the game IMO...Stamper, Triggs, J.T. everyone else is on the rise or suspect!

MP48

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WOW FIRST OFF THE SAINTS ARE NOT FOLDING I REPEAT WE ARE NOT FOLDING AND SECOND OFF I DONT APRECIATE THE COWARDS WHO POSTED THEM COMMENTS ABOUT A MAN AND WOMAN OF GOD BUT JESUS WILL DEAL WITH YOU BUT ON THE OTHER HAND IM GLAD WHO LEFT LEFT THEY WASNT LOYAL THEY WASNT 4 US NOW WE GOT A CORE WE HAVE TRIMMED THE FAT HAS THEY SAY BUT WE WISH THEM LUCK AND SINCE IM NOT A COWARD THIS IS COACH TONEY AND THEY NEXT TIME YOU WANT TO SLANDER A PERSON CHARACTER YOU CAN BE SUED AND PLEASE LET THIS BE THE LAST TIME YOU DONT SIGN YOUR WORK THANK YOU AND GOD BLESS YOU ALL

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The Saints FORFEITED a LEAGUE game. That's a pretty big deal.

If you want to make a threat at least understand what you're threatening.

Slander is spoken.
Libel is written.

Re: No More Saints!!!!!

forefit and folded is to differnt things why you care your not part of the saints and if you was you quit like quiters do therefore let us move on the past is the past have mistakes been made yes but you fix mistakes and move on you all dwell on ours while we move forward thats cool do you and has for has i am concerned libel slander same thang so when you damage a person charcter cause you are angry or get wrong infomation or assume what kind of man or woman do that make you grow a set and man up i never seen so many soft men if my life i was raise were men talk like men not run to a cumputer you all have a bless day night whatever cause you all need it

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Mr Toney or whoever u are.....you seriously have no clue what you're talking about. Educate yourself regarding the game of football & law. You really sound like a dumbass.

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QUESTION OF THE WEEK GOES TO DAVID MURRAY.

WOULD A MAN ROB GOD... Malachi 3:8

I THINK THAT IT HAS BEEN PROVEN ALREADY...

ITS BAD ENOUGH OUT HERE ON THE STREETS BUT YOU GO TELL THESE YOUNG KIDS THAT YOU WILL GIVE THEM OPPORTUNITIES AND NOW THEY RIGHT BACK ON THE STREETS. YOU ARE SUPPOSE TO BE A MAN OF GOD. SMH...

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@ Mr. Toney. I don't think you have any basis in defending the Indpls. Saints ownership. Word on the streets is you guys are done, if not done seriously on life support. I have talked to several players and they all say the same thing. They also voice concerns of payments made, but haven't seen things that money would even go into. Let's keep it real. #1. Uniforms? Where are they? Not the ones we saw in the Tornados game either. The players claim to have bought those. #2. Home field? Has any money went to procure one? #3. You didn't spend money on the trip to Missouri. Savings of ???? (except if you were fined). In other words, where did all these young guys money go? Now if the players didn't pay their dues there was probably no money, but IF the Saints fold, at this point, without taking a heavy spending told such as the items mentioned above, you should be able to give those that paid their money back......for someone to drop the "Will a man rob God....." That is heavy and I don't think someone would do that if there was not truth the allegation. I would hope using spiritual status was not used to recruit this team and these allegations be true.

MP48
Mike Perkins
"for those that think someone is hiding"

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DAMN!!!! Well said MP48!!! Trust me when I tell you, the Saints are truly on life support and it's only a matter of time before they do fold (possibly this weekend if they can't get a home field to play the Scorpions....which by the way will probably mop the floor with them since all of the Saints key players have left, in the process of leaving, or flat out don't care anymore). It's a shame.....

Re: No More Saints!!!!!

MP trust me that scripture was needed...

Re: No More Saints!!!!!

Over the years of playing semi-pro ball I've seen countless teams come and go... some over a matter of months others over a matter of years and even some that have been around for decades. One thing I have noticed since I moved to Indy is with so many teams in the area that sometimes some people will say anything to get people to come play for them. They'll make you all the promises in the world... we're gonna get you this, and we'll have such and such stadium to play at, we'll have scouts that will get you an NFL deal blah blah blah. Unfortuneately its the naive kids listen and buy into all the hype someone is spittin but in reality it tends to be bull$hit that's actually coming out.

A few years ago I found myself in a spot looking for somewhere to play. Had one team say that we're gonna have jerseys with your name on the back we're gonna play at Roncalli H.S. and eventually we're gonna be playing on a national level and team fees are only $50.00 for the year. The accountant in me took all these promises in my head and asked myself this question... "How are they going to pay for all this with only collecting $50?" So I ask if they had sponsors or anything and of course no one had sponsored the team. Again I asked myself "How are they going to pay for all these promises they keep making?" Needless to say that team didn't follow through on all the promises that were made. Sure they lasted a few years but they did fulfill the promises made. Basically at this level its "Buyer Beware." Listen to what people say but look around to see what they are actually delivering. For the most part if it sounds too good to be true...99.5% of the time it is.

Now there are a few teams that do exactly as they say. Triggs has done quite a bit with the Tornados and have alot of sponsors and have done alot in the community as well as on the football field. Generals... ask anyone if JT says something its true. He doesn't bull$hit anyone or make false promises. We work hard and he straight up says if you can ball and be an asset (not a liability) to the team then you'll play. Stamper and the Indiana Mustangs have been around for a long time so that organization knows how to operate and doesn't dangle the carrot in front of the eyes of players with promises that can't be meet. Renegades are a fairly young organzation but I don't see them bsing players either. If I know Marshall Bowman and from what I can tell from the rest of their organization they are straight shooters.

I guess in all what I'm saying about this level of football. Before you go signing on the dotted line to play somewhere... stop and think. No organization can operate for free... the money has to come from somewhere.... ask or figure out how the operations are financed. Generally from my experience that's the number one downfall of most teams in this area and many other areas. Just like in business "Cash is King." If your football team doesn't have the cash to pay for things... you won't be playing ball.

Just some friendly advice to share for those willing to listen.

Dave Clawson
Punter/Kicker #1
Indiana Generals

Re: No More Saints!!!!!

i might sound like a dumbass but at the end of the season win or lose when we are still standing you will be proven has a lier. i will not respone on this subject nomore but has they say only time will tell lol

Re: No More Saints!!!!!

Ok, so Saints are hosting the Scorpions? Where? Could someone from the Saints org (or the Scorpions, for that matter) please promote this game just a little bit... Remember, we all in this together.

@ Mr. Toney, if yal can't answer the question above, then who is the liar..? Speak about something or dont speak at all.

Re: No More Saints!!!!!

Mr. Triggs the game is at 7pm at Arlington high school

Re: No More Saints!!!!!

Thank you sir, good luck tomorrow

Re: No More Saints!!!!!

I'm not going to get into the finder pointing here about what haappened with this team what I have to say affects EVERY TEAM in EVERY LEAGUE
Every year we see threads regarding money and where did it go and sadly teams folding and not being able to continue.
This is the sad part of this level football and some of the blame in my opinion lays with the players themselves, as a player you need to get involved in things attend board meetings ask questions and know where the money is and where the money went from day one.
DO NOT TAKE SOMEONES WORD ABOUT YOUR MONEY!!!!!!
You paid it and you have every right to ask each week the two most important questuions,
# 1 How much money did we bring in this week and
# 2 How much money was spent and for what this week.
There shouldn't be any secret deals going on and a bank statement should always be available to you.
If you have merchandise that is being sold there should be an itemized ledger every week showing what was sold and how much you made off of it.
I believe non-profits are required to keep these items available for inspection.
To many time team items are sold but the correct profit is not returned to the team, for instance if you have a vendor selling T-Shirts for your team of anything else for that matter they should be providing your organization and weekly or monthly report showing sales and what you have earned so far if not then to me that would a red flag.
Just remember a strong organization starts with a strong board or owner if you don't have a strong board or a strong owner then you are up the creek. I hope everyone has what they need to make this a great season and I wish those teams with things still not in order good luck because frankly you will need it. It is getting pretty late in the game to not have your T's crossed and your I's dotted.
All I'm saying here men is know what was brought in, how it is being brought in, and what was spent and on what, you have paid your fees it is your right to know what it is spent on.
So if you are on a team and money seems to be tight you might want to do some checking and see what is going on and how the money situation really is.

Re: No More Saints!!!!!

Saturday June 25th 7:00 pm Derby City Thunder VS. Indianapolis Saints please come see the so called folded team the saints or home field is arllington High school come watch us then you should be able to disregard these false reports Why is it everyone want to see us fail

Re: No More Saints!!!!!

Mr. Toney,

I believe you are misinterpreting lack of knowledge as hate.

I find it difficult to know week to week who you are playing and what the outcome is. I have never seen an official Saints schedule and I have to rely on other teams or your league for scores.

I would suggest starting a website or a facebook group, or at least post weekly where and when your games are as you have just done.

You have an uphill battle no doubt to finish a season with an owner, coaches and players who have left. I suggest you be proactive and let the Indiana Semi Pro Community know your still here and are playing your games week to week or you can just ingore everyone and stop posting stop the hate messages on this board.

Your game has been added to the State Schedule. Good Luck this weekend and I truly hope you can finish out the rest of your season.

Re: No More Saints!!!!!

It's not that everyone wants you to fail. You are a new, young, up an coming organization....we want you to succeed. We ain't hating. If you read the post, the majority of what is being said is either wondering what is going on, schooling some of the players to treat this football thing as a business, or trying to inspire ya'll to do better. Step your game up, I ain't even talkin' bout Wins and loses. I am talking bout your organizational game, and I bet your so called haters will shut up. 1st thing you can do is make your next ROAD game that is out of the city. That would be most impressive. You are part of the GDFL and that is suppose to be one of the things that set us apart. Impress us with that before you go calling us haters!

His Majesty!
MP48

Re: No More Saints!!!!!

Mr Toney, the REAL athletes, coaches, and owners do what we do best....and that's handling our business in regards to the game of football. So, if memory serves me correctly, you should do what you know best....studder. I agree with the previous post, stop sounding like a dumbass, learn the game from a business perspective and learn how to talk in the process. Dumbass.

Re: No More Saints!!!!!

ITs funny to hear this? number one we have not fold or folding in time soon ,second it funny to talk about the murray s ? the same people who is putting this or hear this is post this super fan is a joke how is it that 12 to 15 players have paid their team due. and out of 45 to 50 players have not? everybody made a comment to? but a lots having not paid their money .it so hard get stuff done. he is working on jersey now with a lady name pastor brown who help us .......the money he collect from the 12 or 15 he put it to the home field.. and the bible verse u gave do mean that .it mean if u is robbing god with titles and offing....u give 10% to god ...quit using god word wrong to fit u opinion? about him ye we are a young team when things dont work right we blame the owners and coaches and players on them and wont to quit or want play for free .and dont wont help the team grow and be sucessful ... for as promises david @ crystal can open doors but we have to walk in them its is our choice to make it so if we wont to be on the streets than it is our choice he having lie about get us to the nexel ..... we must play like team and not like hood guys on the field @ off we lost 3 big sponored for acting a fool to keep it real ....so it dont fall all on the owners or coaches .... he is doing the best he can, so praying for the team and him @ wife ...

Re: No More Saints!!!!!

INSPF
Mr. Toney,

I believe you are misinterpreting lack of knowledge as hate.

I find it difficult to know week to week who you are playing and what the outcome is. I have never seen an official Saints schedule and I have to rely on other teams or your league for scores.

I would suggest starting a website or a facebook group, or at least post weekly where and when your games are as you have just done.

You have an uphill battle no doubt to finish a season with an owner, coaches and players who have left. I suggest you be proactive and let the Indiana Semi Pro Community know your still here and are playing your games week to week or you can just ingore everyone and stop posting stop the hate messages on this board.

Your game has been added to the State Schedule. Good Luck this weekend and I truly hope you can finish out the rest of your season.



All this from the man who killed a great team in the Pirates.

John Jackson you really need to just do your thing and not give advice.!!! yes for those who don't know John Jackson is ISPF

Re: No More Saints!!!!!

INSPF
Mr. Toney,

I believe you are misinterpreting lack of knowledge as hate.

I find it difficult to know week to week who you are playing and what the outcome is. I have never seen an official Saints schedule and I have to rely on other teams or your league for scores.

I would suggest starting a website or a facebook group, or at least post weekly where and when your games are as you have just done.

You have an uphill battle no doubt to finish a season with an owner, coaches and players who have left. I suggest you be proactive and let the Indiana Semi Pro Community know your still here and are playing your games week to week or you can just ingore everyone and stop posting stop the hate messages on this board.

Your game has been added to the State Schedule. Good Luck this weekend and I truly hope you can finish out the rest of your season.



All this from the man who killed a great team in the Pirates.

John Jackson you really need to just do your thing and not give advice.!!! yes for those who don't know John Jackson is ISPF

Re: No More Saints!!!!!

No j.j didnt kill the pirates...the players that now play for the renegades killed the pirates. Players are dirty and ownerscoaches have no control

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MR MACK SAY IT IN MY FACE AND GUESS WHAT I DIDNT STUDDER THAT AND IF THIS WHO I THINK IT IS PLZZZZZZZZZZZZ MAKE MY DAY YOU KNOW WHERE I BE AND IM NOT HARD TO FIND MAN UP OR SHUT UP

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I think whoever posted this simply stated is a dumbass. Lets take a look at the Pirate History, they were the team to beat under Dane Hill, something occured numbers dwindled so the Pirates folded. Under new leadership they came back. The last time I checked last year, the players you speak of had already formed their own team and we were still playing and finished our season. So how is it the players who now play for the renegades caused the downfall of the pirates. That team could still be running if dumbasses had decided not to fold the pirates. Even after everyone left the Pirates still played so you tell me how players on my new team caused the fall, Personally your a chicken shit ass mo fo postin like you did. No business or organization fails due to players or employees. The administration decides, owners and the board. It is a shame Dane built something great just to have someone get tired of the responsibilty he signed up for and close shop. JJ and Sam didnt have to fold the Pirates, but they did. That is on them not any grouo or single player chose to close doors. So get your facts straight man up post under your real names. Truly this board is full of haters and people who act like children. Grow up and Man up! Im mad as hell about it and may still be playin there because it was my first team, We were doing great things in the community, it truly is a shame.

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I am man enough to accept part of the blame for the reason folded as should the man who owned the team during its demise. However, I did learn during this time that it takes more than working countless hours of the day, $1000 of dollars, or giving the players everything they ask for to create a great team. It takes a strong groups of leaders to lead a team (not one). It takes a team to accept those leaders and respect them. It takes the right mixture of talent, coaching, and chemistry to create a championship team. The pirates never had all three at one time for an extended period of time.

Dane Hill should not be blamed for any part of it. He did the BEST he could as he worked 2nd shift and could only be there Saturdays. His efforts during game day, during the nights at home making play calls, trying to coach a team not being there, will outshine many coaches in semi-pro football. My only regret is that I never had a chance to play on a true Dane Hill team.

I did not grow tired of the responsibility of running a team. What I grew tied of was the non-stop complaining, backstabbing, and disrespect during this time. It came to a point last year where I had enough. For my own health and career I stepped away from the team, cut my losses, and move on. The Pirates finished out their season, tho without many of the extras they had grown accustomed to.

I signed over the team back to Sam, who gave me the team in the first place. He offered to allow the coach to continue to use the name it they regroup the next year, that never happened.

My failures are just that, I am not proud of them. I learned lessons of football, business, and leadership, These are very tough lessons to learn, more so for a someone in their twenty's. A few people will never forgive me for what happen, and that is on them. Like most of everyone else, I have moved on from the Pirate's team. It is not the first good team to have folded, or will it be the last.

Currently a majority of the Pirates during the last three years do play for the Renegades, but they also can be found on the Revolution, the Tornadoes, the Cardinals, the Saints, and I am sure other teams in the state.

Right now I am happy to be part of the Revolution Family as just a player. Football has for the first time since I started semi-pro become a stress relief, not a cause of stress - the way it should be.

Re: No More Saints!!!!!

I thought this thread was about the Saints???

Reads more like "No More Pirates!!!!!"

On to the next topic....

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AT THE END OF THE DAY, THE BIG PROBLEM IS PEOPLE THESE DAYS ARE MORE ABOUT THEMSELVES THAN HAVING LOYALTY. THINGS HAVE HAPPENED THAT WE CAN'T CHANGE. ONE THING I KNOW FOR SURE IS THE SAINTS ARE ALIVE AND WELL. OUR HOME GAMES ARE AT ARLINGTON. NEXT WEEK WE WILL BE GOING UP AGAINST MR. TRIGGS AND THE TORNADOS. IF YOU STILL DONT BELIEVE ME, ASK DERBY CITY AND SOME OF THE FORMER SAINTS THAT SHOWED UP LAST WEEK.


END OF DISCUSSION.

Re: No More Saints!!!!!

YADA, YADA, YADA! We gone get in dat azz again! So with that, "Nuff Said". Ya'll alive and kickin', good! Now we don't have to replace a game. See ya on the 9th.

MP48

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Damn its crazy how when you try to show people respect "Young" men show they immature character. But it is what it is. I respect the organization for being elite. As far as some of disrespectful players, y'all need to grow up because if you was that good you would be in the N.F.L.. Good luck on the rest of the season.

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Bahahahaha! at WWW.LOL@STFU! Come on Bro. See this is what happens when you put yourself in a vunerable position? You tend to not understand the nature of the beast that you are dealing with....I take it you are addressing me with your NFL comment. The thing is that comment may hurt somebody's feelings. I am not that person however. I, my friend, am totally content with kicking your asses on the 9th! Now stop bytchin and sounding like you looking for sympathy with this long ass thread, suit up and play ball. Cause young or not doesn't matter much July 9, 2011 @ 7pm! OOOOOOOH YEEEAH!

His Majesty
MP48

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Haahahaaa my man. Naw sir I ain't looking for sympathy. Just respect. But I also don't do this rift raft bullshit on here. Good luck tonight and the rest of the season.

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You right....you confine that "rift raft bullshit" to the field I see. Of course it has no place here, but then again, you ARE here posting too!

His Majesty
MP48