supaheader

General Forum
Start a New Topic 
Author
Comment
Give me an opinion

Most football teams don't consider the kicker to really be threat on kick off coverage. If they spring a return and the kicker is the last man between the returner and a TD, then absolutely he gets blocked, but to send one of your front line guys after the kicker as soon as he kicks it, not once, but 4 or 5 times is classless. That is my opinion, what does everybody else think?

Re: Give me an opinion

If your kicker is a typical kicker, then there's no reason to send a front line guy after him. By typical, I mean that he doesn't rush down field in a legitamite attempt to make a play, instead he stays back as the last line of defense. I have seen some kickers take on the role of special teams playmaker. Some guys use the kicker position as a second or third position. Some guys are safetys, linebackers, running backs, etc.. If that's the case, they'd be more likely to race down to make the tackle and then I wouldn't have a problem with the opposition sending a guy at them to block.

Re: Give me an opinion

Trust me, he is a kicker.....he is a good one, but he is still just a kicker....I'm not knocking what they do, it does require skill.

Re: Give me an opinion

I was at the game and that was messed up, the kid literally kicked the ball and got crushed by one of the linebackers, thats worse than a defenseless receiver because theres no way he was expecting it. He was messed up afterward too!

Re: Give me an opinion

Must be a fast linebacker to fun 10 yards and hit a kicker who is "defenseless"....just saying. But if you ask me every player on the field is a threat to make a tackle.

I will say this though....if the kicker sits back then you put your ten guys on the first ten guys running down the field and let your returner be one on one with the kicker.

Re: Give me an opinion

Football is football. If thats how they want to do then cool. But, our kicker tried to avoid and 1 time the guy literally grabbed him and slammed him and got the holding call. Once something like that happens, then there is something wrong.

I hate saying this because it is football but I feel bad for the kid, cause he was in a lot of pain. I had to come in and punt for him late in the game because his head was pounding. The LB had 50-60 lbs to the our kicker.

He did make some plays though and may have frustrated the other team.

Re: Give me an opinion

If he is making plays then there definitely should be nothing said about it...other than the dirty play. I mean if a flag was thrown sounds like they got him for it.

Football is football....Being out weighed is typical in this sport. Ask any linebacker! lol

Congrats on the win this weekend! Feels good right!

Re: Give me an opinion

There is a reason us kickers have to wear helmets and shoulder pads. Its because just like everyone else on the field once we're no longer in a defenseless position we are fair game. I know the rule is on kickoffs that you can't hit the kicker until he is 5 yards down the field which is usually crossed once our kicking leg comes back to the field due to our forward momentum forcing us across that five yard zone. From what it sounds like what happened to your kicker (who I agree is a good kicker) was perfectly legal (minus the holding part).

Generally teams are usually worried about the other ten guys on the kickoff coverage team being blocked by their ten blockers. If they're taking one of their blockers to use on a kicker then that might be saying something about what they think about your coverage team.

You also gotta remember how much attention do most teams spend on working on special teams during the week. For the most part guys out there are just thrown out there without much direction or instructions. They're simply told to "go hit someone." So their maybe someone who is just a bench warmer or someone who is playing a regular role in the game but just getting manhandled and looking for a cheap highlight reel hit. Pretty much at this level of football you just have to watch your back and expect someone on the other side might be like that.

Or if you know which guy is coming to make take a shot you have several things you could do. You could try to line drive a kickoff right at him which could do two things 1) make him slow down his run at the kicker 2) if it hits him and comes back to the kicker recover it and you get the ball back. Or something I've had some success with is let him run up on the kicker and when he gets to him, duck and let him flip over the kicker. Then your kicker and stand up and run down the field as a coverage safety or if the return guy is already tackled he can just stand over him and laugh.

So to summarize sounds like what was happening wasn't illegal minus the holding. Might not like it but it wasn't illegal.

Dave Clawson
Punter/Kicker #1
Indiana Generals

Re: Give me an opinion

JC it does feel good! I didnt know about that 5 yard rule. I guess Im just thinking ethically on the situation.

Re: Give me an opinion

The 1st couple of times the Wildcats kicked off to the Cutters they didn't send anyone after the kicker. But when the WCW's kicker squibbed an onside kick & recovered it himself is when the Cutters started coming after him...they were pissed because they were taking a beating. I do agree the kicker should pay attention at all times after he kicks off. He did get lit up the 1st time it happened. The 3rd time is when the Cutters player slammed him to the ground & got an unnecessary roughness penalty.

Let's be honest. The Cutters were getting their butts handed to them & they were mad. But the only person they had the guts to hit was the 160 lb. kicker when he had to keep kicking off because WCW KEPT SCORING! I sure didn't see them hit anybody else all night. The Wildcats just kept pounding the ball on them. They didn't even want to try to tackle that old fat running back from the Wildcats...what is he like 40 yrs old?? I'd be ashamed of myself if I let him run over me.

If you're on that field you should have your head on a swivel, but it was obvious that they were trying to hurt the kicker (I think there were two different guys who went after him). It's not that big of a deal, but maybe they shoulda been hitting the guys with the ball & who were scoring; instead of the little guy who was getting a sore leg from having to kick off because his team kept scoring...

Re: Give me an opinion

I never said it was illegal, just unethical BS....i don't think the old guy is 40, he's only 39

Re: Give me an opinion

Whether its ethical or unethical... so long as its legal it can be done.

Dave Clawson
Punter/Kicker #1
Indiana Generals

Re: Give me an opinion

You know, it all depends...

I've seen the WCW kicker play before. He defintely has talent. I can't say that I've never wanted to blast a kicker.

But you have to admire the fact that that kicker tries to do everything he can to help his team win. If the Cutters felt threatened enough by him, then so be it. The kicker is a big boy, he can handle himself.

But seeing a few brief moments when he was being targeted, that was kinda classless. Hit him up high a few times and leave it at that. Don't turn it into WWE, you'll lose every time. I've seen that kid press slam a DB once that was gettin mouthy on extra points and field goals.

It wasnt pretty.

Re: Give me an opinion

Ok, I didnt want to say anyhting until I watched the film so that I could have all the facts straight because honestly I dont remember much of the game after kicking that ball. What happened was #9 lined up straight in front of me instead of to my left where he was before I recovered my own onside, nothing that seemed out of the normal. When I was approaching the ball obviously the only thing I was paying attention to was the ball so I didnt notice that right before I kicked it he started after me. Now my stride as Clawson will understand takes me about 2.5-3 yards down field in which my head is still down. That is the last thing I remember, I was hit at 4 yards and could hear it on film, which in no way was loud. It was helmet to helmet and that guy was the cutters middle linebacker. I know for a fact that I was defenseless and the film proves that it was at 4 yards. I have a pretty bad concussion (my third) and some pretty shitty whiplash. Im not one to talk smack to other teams and Ive only posted on here once, comemorating a well officiated game. But that was classless and the fact that they continued to send guys after me on kickoff made it worse. I dont feel like I need to say anything else cuz "haters gon hate!"

Logan Valentine #9
West Central Wildcats
IFL CHAMPS!!

Re: Give me an opinion

I'll just bet you'd make a hell of a LB.

Just a thought...

Re: Give me an opinion

Logan,

First of all congrats on the championship.

Thanks for the details on the situation. First of all I don't believe the receiving team can cross the ten yard buffer zone between the front line and the kickoff team until the ball is kicked like the kickoff team can't cross the line where the ball is kicked off from until it is kicked. Also, considering what you've told me about getting hit at 4 yards then yes that should have been a penalty, not exactly sure what what call would have been other than an hit on a defenseless player.

My advice to you is to work on another onside to go along with the one you used against the Cutters. Or next time you're in such a situation you may want to be aware and get your head and body into a defensable position sooner if possible. Or like I stated before line that sucker up and aim right for the guy and line drive it at him like a squib kick. If you have to do that every time so be it. That should slow him down or at least make him try to either jump out of the way of it or force him to attempt to field it in which case your team should be able to blast him and take the ball.

Hope you get to feeling better soon.

Dave Clawson
Punter/Kicker #1
Indiana Generals

Re: Give me an opinion

u are lucky they didnt put my phat butt in there to kick the ball. i would of sure loved one of those turds to come at me.. just sayin im 305 and i get down.. ask your boy on the punt return.. hahaha the C trian is coming to a town near u.. hahaha great yr guys keep it out of your butts... maybe we will all meet again..

Re: Give me an opinion

The Undertaker
Logan,

First of all congrats on the championship.

Thanks for the details on the situation. First of all I don't believe the receiving team can cross the ten yard buffer zone between the front line and the kickoff team until the ball is kicked like the kickoff team can't cross the line where the ball is kicked off from until it is kicked. Also, considering what you've told me about getting hit at 4 yards then yes that should have been a penalty, not exactly sure what what call would have been other than an hit on a defenseless player.

My advice to you is to work on another onside to go along with the one you used against the Cutters. Or next time you're in such a situation you may want to be aware and get your head and body into a defensable position sooner if possible. Or like I stated before line that sucker up and aim right for the guy and line drive it at him like a squib kick. If you have to do that every time so be it. That should slow him down or at least make him try to either jump out of the way of it or force him to attempt to field it in which case your team should be able to blast him and take the ball.

Hope you get to feeling better soon.

Dave Clawson
Punter/Kicker #1
Indiana Generals



Dave Its unnecesary Roughness. but you'll never get the call at this level. unless they take your head off. I get hit everygame, its football though. If you wanna play soccer play soccer, but we wear pads for a reason. Swivel son,know your surroundings. then you will be able to hit back.

Re: Give me an opinion

fat boy
u are lucky they didnt put my phat butt in there to kick the ball. i would of sure loved one of those turds to come at me.. just sayin im 305 and i get down.. ask your boy on the punt return.. hahaha the C trian is coming to a town near u.. hahaha great yr guys keep it out of your butts... maybe we will all meet again..



lieutenant Dan can kick a ball better than you Carter

Re: Give me an opinion

REALLY??? All I have to say is that everyone who plays football are football players! True when you get deep into the game (which I believe semi-pro players mos def are) you have your specialists, headlined by the kicker! I understand totally what Dave explained, & I know he is a very knowledgeable kicker ( I just don't know who's better, him or his brother. they both should be trying out for higher levels). I've seen Ham get hit before, and I'm pretty sure that the Clawsons have been hit (thats probably why Dave could give you so many tricks). Kicker, Punter, QB, DB, RB, OL, DL, LB, Wr......they are ALL FOOTBALL players. Each position has safety protection with in the rules, ie, chop blocking on DL. From what I understand about kick off is that the "5 Yard" rule is correct, but when you get to where you said you got, 4 yards, if your leg is down you are not defenseless any more. SO WITH ALL THAT SAID< STOP BEING A PUSSY! Football is a contact sport in which contact is made on every play, and yes even a kicker can have get it.
By know means am I down playin your injuries, because a real football player doesn't wish injury on the worst enemy! Hope you get better and be careful, head injuries aren't jokes! Congrats on the SHIP WCW!

Re: Give me an opinion

We all have been hit. Its football. but i must say, its much more fun to hit someone than it is to just get rocked. (like i did vs the Rev)

Re: Give me an opinion

The kid took his licks, he even gave one, I know everyone on the field is a player and subject to get hurt, but if the same thing would have been done to a QB, who is just as equally padded up, maybe more than a kicker, it would have been a flag.

Thanks for everybody's input, this has been a pretty decent conversation.

And lastly, next year I won't worry about them doing this to him, we will onside kick in one form another every time we kick off, and history shows that will be often.

Re: Give me an opinion

Half the teams dont have kickers anyway..so its kinda the same thing. lol. Everyone gets hit. and im sure u would rather the other team have it at the 20 instead of midfield.

Re: Give me an opinion

Im bein a pussy? Pretty sure I never started this conversation, just stated facts. By the way, I played the rest of the game smart ass. Check the film. But hide behind your name and ill hide behind my hardware!God Bless

Re: Give me an opinion

No you didn't!! I punted inside the 5 yard line! Remember!!? LOL

Re: Give me an opinion

1 play my bad

Re: Give me an opinion

First off let me say congrats to the WCW for getting that ring, i know how it feels to get one so from the bottom of my heart i will say congrats. Now, i will say this, i havent posted on here this entire year simply because i dont like all of this back and forth stuff, but when i see my team and teammates being labeled and all sorts of other things that is where i draw the line. Coach you may say that your kicker is just a kicker but im here to tell that after having to throw a block on him when Gimore was running free and he squared up with me on the sideline, he is anything but "A KICKER". Now as for Conners (9) throwing a block or being sent to block him, that is not completely false but it is also inaccurate. Nobody blocked the kicker until he recovered an on side kick and that is when Conners was moved inside, he was told to make sure the kicker KICKED the ball and not allow the squib to happen again. What happened from there i cant say but i know it was between the lines and the whistles. The person that got called for the penalty was not even Conners, it was number 21 who plays DE but it is only because that is the only thing he can play, he really is the size of a DB about 180lbs.
It is hard for me to sit back and listen to players and coaches call my team classless when you have a player that speared 3 different players 2 of which were called as personal fouls, at which point he was supposed to be ejected from the game but that never happened; would it have mattered; no, but the fact remains that it happened and u have not seen one Cutter get on here and post saying the Cats are dirty. People wanna say hitting a kicker is dirty, well what about blindsiding players who have no chance at making a play on kickoffs or punt returns? There were several times that we had players taken out like this, but once again, we have said nothing about it, yeah it is legal but is that not classless? I take offense at ppl pointing fingers but never wanting to see the flaws in the ish that they do. To me, the issue is over, we got beat, shit happens, u cant give up 21 points to the other teams defense and think that u will win the game, bottom line. I just cant sit back and read that we are classless when you have a multitude of players on your team doing things that you are not pointing out, i mean you were up almost 30 in the 4th still throwing bombs, is that classless? To me, no, if u cant stop what the other team is doing then u deserve to get routed but not everyone feels the way i do. If u are a kicker then u are fair game, if u are a punter then u are fair game, if u are a coach and u step on the field in between the whistle then u are fair game, anybody on that field is fair game, hell my brother is 5'6 160 and i watched him get blindsided by a lineman on one side of the field, and then a backer on the other side....ALL ON THE SAME PLAY....so im sorry when i dont weep about a player and his size after watching that, but i told him, bro u gotta keep ya head and ya eyes on the swivel. As i stated before, i say congrats to the WCW for winning it, dont taint it by getting on here acting like u were being oppressed all night

Re: Give me an opinion

all i'm saying is it was legal "ortiz". hey mayweather whip ortiz's ass when he wanted to be a stoop and put his hands down. same situation if you are in the ring or on the field be alert.

Re: Give me an opinion

all i'm saying is it was legal "ortiz". hey mayweather whip ortiz's ass when he wanted to be a stoop and put his hands down. same situation if you are in the ring or on the field be alert.

Re: Give me an opinion

Dont get me wrong "im just saying" i feel the same way, legal is legal, but there is also a fine line that champions should walk, a cheap shot doesnt mean that it was not legal, it just means that it was not needed and it was only done to satisfy ones ego or own agenda. I think the squibbed onside kick was effing ingenious, i have no issue with that, i do have an issue with saying that a team is classless because do to one player or one play.....if that is the case then there is not one classy team around, and there surely wasnt a classy team on the field that night.....i just hope this issue dies, the season is over, WCW are the champs, well deserved, time to get ready for the next season....

Re: Give me an opinion

I agree with Andre I hope this issue dies.

Re: Give me an opinion

I agree with my brotha from anotha motha and old Golden Knight teammates (even though he doesnt talk to me anymore). The cutters are anything but classless...they are a great organization and Im sure IF anything happened its isolated.

Re: Give me an opinion

They are classy without a doubt. I don't think any of our guys think they are classless, just wondering if it was an ethical tactic. Anyways this thread is dead.

Re: Give me an opinion

Andre Key Indiana Cutters #42
It is hard for me to sit back and listen to players and coaches call my team classless when you have a player that speared 3 different players 2 of which were called as personal fouls, at which point he was supposed to be ejected from the game but that never happened; would it have mattered; no, but the fact remains that it happened


ok, first of all id like to share some information about penalties to you Cutters. Your head coach said the same thing to me after the game. Ok so the calls were helmet to helmet calls which are PERSONAL fouls correct, but PERSONAL fouls do not get you tossed rom a game. It would be the same thing as kicking someone out of the game for 2 facemask penalties... Now 2 UNSPORTSMENLIKE penalties get you tossed from a game such as lets say, throwing a right jab in the 3rd kickoff of the game (#9) which is an automatic ejection and then hitting the kicker, holding him down and throwing an open hand to the face mask.... Those are 2 UNSPORTSMENLIKE penalties... Helmet to helmet is once again a PERSONAL foul... Have a great off season and call the IHSAA for your 2012 Rules book and case book, they are $7.50 for each book. Cant wait to see you next year!!

Re: Give me an opinion

Too bad we played by NFL rules this year buddy....what a dumb ass

Re: Give me an opinion

Hey Trey, u dumb shit that rule is not just a HS rule but college and NFL also. Know your football knowledge or dont play... buddy....You should probably not post anything else, you just lost all privileges to talk about football.

Re: Give me an opinion

I've been a kicker for a long time myself... and have never been the target that quick on kickoffs. If there's a decent return sure there is always a guy coming for me.

But if that had happened to me I'd have the guys next to me on kickoffs 'spy' the guys on the front line as they're sprinting down field, and lay them out if they're headed for me... 99% of the time the return team's front line will retreat back a little and set up a return so it's not an issue.

If I have at least the 5 yards to follow through with my momentum then I'm fine to defend myself...

Riha
Cards' P/K

Re: Give me an opinion

Carroll#26
Hey Trey, u dumb shit that rule is not just a HS rule but college and NFL also. Know your football knowledge or dont play... buddy....You should probably not post anything else, you just lost all privileges to talk about football.


once again, you show your class, who is really the dumb shit, the one that doesnt know the rule, or the one that knows it yet still breaks it? you can tell the ppl that are not use to winning anything, and u are the one that said pick up a copy of the HIGH SCHOOL RULE BOOK.....another internet tough guy

Re: Give me an opinion

Show my class...? How, by stating that you had no say so in an argument you obviously know nothing about? Alright.... Not used to winning? 11-0, kinda got used to it week 4 or so, but again good try Tray...One more thing before I stop posting on this pointless "argument." I did say a HS rule book, correct. It is still a rule book with rules that are in BOTH HS and NFL listed in it, youre the guy that stated the first "low blow" all I did was correct you and yet you still keep going... Classy, still #Winning